Spacelanes

Author	Comment
Thrion	Spacelanes	Lead	[-]
Posts: 503 (05/09/08 01:44:44) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Since there is soo much either confusion or complete misunderstanding on well... everyone's part since we all have different ideas of what is currently allowed it seems and all have ideas on what should be. Soooooo I'll start things off. This is what I think it should be, most of it is what I already understand it to be. Shipping: PCs can ship. They can have two ships involved. Them + 1 droid. PERIOD. If they want an escort of their own accord, they lose a transport for it. Factions: There needs to be some reason for them to ship. Faction Escorts: If a faction wants to dispatch a ship to escort, it should be perfectly allowed for their own faction members or those who are paying for it in some way. As an Admiral, the CSA wouldn't let such a person go unprotected. They would ensure I have some form of escort. Especially since they are getting plenty of RUs and credits for this. Raiding: PCs: PCs can use 1+1 (1 droid piloted) ship to raid. Factions: They can use what they want. BUT as it is now they must be in the spacelanes. You have to put those assets into the spacelanes and remove them from protecting your worlds! If there is to be a limit on faction assets within any shipping activity escorts should = raiding. But I would also say if a faction is raiding, no PC craft may assist in the faction raiding. I would also suggest you can only "raid" and claim what you can take with you. If they dump the cargo and you can only take 1/10th of it, you should only get 1/10th. The floor is yours. xD
zasabi1		#1	[-]
Posts: 1137 (05/09/08 06:24:54) Zasabi Ray Wandering warrior Breaking the Boundaries Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The major problem with Faction shipping and escorts is that, realistically, shipping for factions is not necessary. Why bother, when they get the ore from their own mines instantaneously, and can simply assign escorts to the ships escorting to them? They don't have to pay out of pocket to the shippers, since the system pays them. So what's the point? What I'm trying to say is if there's going to be faction shipping, there has to be a reason. Yeah, you COULD theoretically ship much more-except that you would have such a higher chance of being caught that it would nullify it completely. Plus, the amount that a person can ship is already more than they can make, especially since most factions nowadays just hand out mines and Action V's like candy. My proposal, and I understand that it would take coding to route, is that factions have to ship their own minerals from their mining planets to their construction planets. If the mining planet is also a construction planet, then no worries! Otherwise, they have to move it to a construction planet. This makes it so that there's a point to Faction Shipping, rather than just having all of the individuals in a faction shipping stuff To their own Faction. After all, we never saw Leia Organa or Han Solo flying a private convoy of minerals from a privately owned mine that the rebellion had granted them while being escorted by the whole fifth fleet. I don't think it's too much to ask for our characters, by all means as important as these two, to do the same. At the very least, let's split Private and Faction shipping completely? That doesn't take any coding at all, and just makes so much more sense.
Thrion		#2	[-]
Posts: 505 (05/09/08 13:50:37) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	My own grip is that ummm, I basically took 2 Action V's under a lease from the CSA. xD I have to give them back eventually and since they are a faction assest, they will protect them. I don't like the idea of restricting a faction from using its forces in any part of the system where they can send ships. They can put ships in the spacelanes, I can ask them to escort me. If anything there should be a lessening of the reward for shipping under this escort. Otherwise then you are letting faction forces RAID my little ship. Then you'll want ot restrict that to private forces. Then it gets even more stupid because no PC who is raiding will have enough hold to actualy take what they "raid." It just gets messier. >.> Seems like mostly people have a problem with factions investing in the members who are active so taht they can get a little extra RUs and credits. Then don't like the idea of protecting what they invested in. Sorry if it comes out wrong but I'm coming at it from a CSA pov. Like hell I'm going to stop protecting my factions transports and stop protecting those who ship who happen to hold important office. If they were just rping traveling somewhere, they'd have an escort. Under chance of a pirate raid, you better believe they'll have something escorting them. Even if I'm allowed to click a button to say "escort" or not. I don't like the idea of restricting "Factions can't do this in the GW system!" Spacelanes are part of the GW. Faction assets are put there and out of the war to escort and raid faction and personal convoys. I like it as it is. If I get pushed off my worlds, I can make it a living hell for the BSP members when they ship till I get strong enough to take back my stuff. Coz they'll have to protect the spacelanes too then I can strike and even the odds some. xD If you can't tell, I'm a big personal freedoms guy. It also translates to let factions do with what they have whatever they want with them as long as its not as crazy as giving a dude a VSD or something. Keep as few restrictions as possible.
Rani Churs		#3	[-]
Posts: 3201 (05/09/08 14:31:49) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Smurf said: My own grip is that ummm, I basically took 2 Action V's under a lease from the CSA. xD I have to give them back eventually and since they are a faction assest Then technically Smurf, you'd be breaking the rules. No faction property is allowed to be used in transporting personal resources. You keep mentioning the GW and being pulled off worlds, yet we all know that most of the time the forces in the spacelanes are lurking unused and it hasn't been hindering the factions yet.
Thrion		#4	[-]
Posts: 507 (05/09/08 18:50:59) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'm breaking no rules. Its perfectly legal to transfer frieghters last time I checked. Now if I have a private arrangement to return them at some point with my faction, thats my business. And last time I checked, this lease I have is considered a capital lease based on GAAP standards so it technically is my property until the lease is over, in our world. xD Since SW has nothing like it, I consider GAAP to be what the CSA would follow since we are a business and accounting is damn vital. Just not as transparent at times. As the lease not being made public knowledge for the masses. I bet 99.999999% of yall didn't want to know that or 100% don't care. xD Its not my fault no faction has the "guts" (Insert a better word please) to use their spacelane force. I surely hope Jay will stand up and actually get messy with Thrion's shipments. It would make such ellecnet rps and make the boring spacelanes, interesting. ^-* Don't ya think? I plan to use CSA force. Thats why I made it. As I said, I'd love to see raiders get only what they can take and the rest be lost in space. Kinda makes things a little interesting. Makes boarding far more likely.
Thrion		#5	[-]
Posts: 511 (05/10/08 12:19:28) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	For factions: if the idea of factions starting to transport is liked, the reward could be a few more credits then individuals or say 1k extra production. The first being far easier to implement and more reasonable. Pointless, nah. if you faction has a surpluss of income of RUs, like spice (dune) you'd probably want to transport it somewhere safe to store it. Though you'd have to follow the 2 transport rule. Also before anyone starts poking fun at factions giving away transports. The biggest poke needs to be to those who somehow in the past when it was legal I guess somehow got warships that would kinda be the ultimate power in the spacelanes if factions can't escort. xD I smell cheese on a fish swimming in a sea of winter bliss. God that made no sense.
Kal Strife		#6	[-]
Posts: 3737 (05/12/08 09:21:15) Rebel Leader Master of the Force The Unforgiven Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I was under the impression that there were few restrictions on faction involvement in spacelanes. Ie, they can transport resources from characters, though this results in the character not gaining any rewards, and they can provide escorts for characters. There's certainly no rule to prevent someone like Zechs transferring some freighters to himself and using them to ship RU; heck, it's practically a tradition of SL at this point. I think I'll see if I can get Jay to step in and clear up any confusion on my first two points, though. Oh, and Zas, I would certainly be against any ammendments that made the GW system more confusing and convoluted. It's already a major league Hertzield >.>
Jay Mertaal		#7	[-]
Posts: 5498 (05/14/08 18:36:21) Administrator Leader of the BSP Legendary Pirate Captain Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Right. Personally I think the rules are pretty clear on this, but I may be wrong as I know the rules already. Could anybody who's confused about this please check the rules section on our homepage and come back to this thread with anything which they don't understand?
Thrion		#8	[-]
Posts: 567 (05/14/08 18:42:50) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The general confusion is over Faction's escorting. That is not there otherwise we'd have quoted it already. Can factions escort personal shipping? I've always seen it and remember it. Others say its not allowed.
Jay Mertaal		#9	[-]
Posts: 5502 (05/14/08 18:49:28) Administrator Leader of the BSP Legendary Pirate Captain Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It was allowed before the faction shipping rules were introduced, and as far as I remember it wasn't repealed as a possibility, so faction ships can be used to escort personal transports if the faction leader agrees, yes.
zasabi1		#10	[-]
Posts: 1143 (05/20/08 16:22:42) Zasabi Ray Wandering warrior Breaking the Boundaries Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	No no, I get that. I'm not disputing it's Legality, merely whether it really should be allowed. But I already regurgitated my argument up there, so yeah.
Thrion		#11	[-]
Posts: 606 (05/20/08 16:52:58) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Zas, my own problem with not allow it is... You have a Titan Patrol ship. Kal has an Assassin Corvette. For those who also have, I apologize to you two for mentioning you and not them. I just know yours off head. xD I'm not saying yall shouldn't but not allowing factions to escort basically is handing the space lanes over to yall OR factions will, instead of two action Vs, give one action v and say a Assassin Corvette. Kinda is another whole set of problems. >< If it was all just fighters and fighter lvl transports, I'd have no problem. or fighter lvl stuff plus say Action Vs and pure freighter lvl capital ships. But when you get heavy firepower like those in it, no one can compete if the best ship they can get without bugging a faction is a starfighter. I'm more then open to new stuff and trying to make faction shipping worth it. I'd love to get the CSA shipping ore even for the hell of it so can get some action going. But it would be nice to see something for that time spent. Even if its a token thing of, the CSA ships ore to sellers market. We get 10 credits an ru. Some amount far less then what a PC does for shipping ru since this would have real escorts. Then the ru gets destroyed and the CSA gets credits. Thus all this extra ru we get can be used for something we all get other then storage. Last Edited By: Thrion 05/20/08 16:57:27. Edited 1 times.
zasabi1		#12	[-]
Posts: 1147 (05/28/08 05:20:38) Zasabi Ray Wandering warrior Breaking the Boundaries Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	See, there's an issue with that though. One- Character-wise, it makes no sense for me to be raiding people. Zas has a longstanding hatred against pirating, for the most part, and doesn't see any good reason why he would bother with it. Certain Pirates he has few problems with, due to their methods, but for the most part, they're not particularly big. Second...how did Kal get an Assassin Corvette? I must've missed that. Third: At the end, it comes to this choice. Do I ambush someone and #*$# them off to where they start trying to ambush me or enlist a faction to do it, or do I use the Ore that is, by all means, building up in my account, transfer it, and call it a day? It ends up being much easier and beneficial to me to simply mind my own business. Add in that I can only Raid or Ship, and I tend to have to protect my shipments anyways...well, the choice becomes pretty obvious.
Kal Strife		#13	[-]
Posts: 3826 (05/28/08 06:59:03) Rebel Leader Master of the Force The Unforgiven Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I cut a deal with the CSA a few years back - I agreed to join them for a set period, and Sal agreed to give me a cheap (relatively speaking) ship. In regards to raiding... well, I must admit that I tend to prefer that to actually trying to ship RU, since I've earned myself so many enemies that actually trying a convoy is basically nothing more than an elaborate way for me to give them money.
Thrion		#14	[-]
Posts: 657 (05/28/08 14:29:56) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'm just saying, this Zas. You or Kal could easily raid us non-warshipers. Not saying you would but you could and would be godly! BUT you also would be immune to being raided. No personal character, pirate or otherwise, would be able to raid you. A TIE-Defender won't be able to take down a Titan in the spacelanes. The Pirates and others would have to follow the trend. Give those members who have been with them a whiel and trusted a small warship to own to counter yours. :P The only solution to that is letting factions escort and raid still. If Zas, you wanted to raid my CSA convoy. You would have fun taking on the gunship. It wouldn't be OMG your dead. I'm not unreasonable in taht area. I won't put a huge fleet in the spacelanes. Only enough ships to cover what needs to be. Also, you can raid and ship with your ships. As I read the rules, If I have a Titan or just my TIE-D, I can use it in one shipping as an escort and another as a raider. Not that I would risk such a fighter. :P
Kal Strife		#15	[-]
Posts: 3834 (05/30/08 04:45:49) Rebel Leader Master of the Force The Unforgiven Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	As far as I'm aware, you can only be in one spacelanes thread per month and you can't lend out your person ships for use by others. Might be wrong, but I know that's at least how it was originally.
Thrion		#16	[-]
Posts: 673 (05/30/08 13:19:18) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Could have sworn I read that in the rules. >< eyes glaze over Oh well. Even better! xD
Giddeon Tork		#17	[-]
Posts: 115 (06/16/08 02:13:09) Loyalist Commodore Psychotic Mess Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Personally I feel that there are two ways. 1) You are making a personal shipment, that is you are moving the goods from your possession to some other processing plant to get the money for it. You are using your own personal transports and escorts, not mooching off a faction to get escorts when it may or may not even be going to the faction character wise. Its personal, not having anything to do with the faction so the faction or its equipment shouldnt be involved in it. 2) You are making a faction shipment, that is you are using the factions equipment to transport and escort your goods to the faction. You are using the faction and only the factions equipment and none of your own (save for weapons/armour in case of a boarding). To make things, personally, a little better have it be something like this. For personal transportation you can only use your roster equipment period. However if you wish you can call upon escorts however another person from that faction must roleplay along with you in order to use the faction equipment. Ontop of this you will recieve only 3/4 of your regular pay out, the rest goes to the faction as paying off the price of protecting you. For factional transports you get a 25% bonus to the amount shipped as the factions value this. A member of a faction must rp with you however as per normal rules.
Kal Strife		#18	[-]
Posts: 3899 (06/16/08 08:40:03) Rebel Leader Master of the Force The Unforgiven Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	But... why? I mean, it makes perfect sense for the Grand Admiral of the Galactic Empire to be able to call upon a couple of Star Destroyers to protect the shipment of vital resources he's sending to the Empire. And there are just as plausible explanations available to other ranks and factions. Here are a few; * The shipment is a tribute for the faction leader (Mainly applicable for Shadows, Sith and Empire) * The shipment contains, in addition to the RU, an ancient piece of technology that the faction will want to protect. * The resources being shipped are vital for the construction of some device (stygium for cloaking generators, for example), so the faction wish to ensure they arrive. * The ship is carrying vital intelligence or VIPs, with the RU transportation just being a cover. See? Easy enough to provide a reason for the faction to want to protect a shipment. The main problem, I think, is that people don't use their imaginations in these things. They always just assume they're transporting a chunk of copper ore, or something dull like that.
Giddeon Tork		#19	[-]
Posts: 116 (06/16/08 23:30:20) Loyalist Commodore Psychotic Mess Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Then why have the difference between the faction transportation and personal if you use those as excuses to guard your RU? I'm not shooting down the idea of using faction pieces but I just feel that its a little bogus that if a shipment isnt going to a faction (ie personal trans) then it shouldnt have faction help. Why would the faction help if it isnt getting anything out of it? Isnt that the whole reason of having a faction trans that the faction gets a cut and in return protects its investments?
Kal Strife		#20	[-]
Posts: 3905 (06/17/08 07:23:59) Rebel Leader Master of the Force The Unforgiven Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	You're missing the point, dear Tork. The faction always gets something in return for its investment. It gets the RU, and most FLs will tell you that's a precious commodity indeed. I, for one, would rather have an extra 10k RU on the Rebel roster than an extra 10 million credits.

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