GW and Strategy.

Author	Comment
Thrion	GW and Strategy.	Lead	[-]
Posts: 256 (03/25/08 02:14:51) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None First let me say I have no idea how to solve this but I thought it was worth bringing up since it came up in a chat today between me and some people. Currently as to my understanding in hte SLIU the GW battles take no tactics into account except what you target. If I rp one line of tactics or an essay of a brilliant strategy, if I'm outnumbered I lose. The wonderful part of star wars is, the underdog can win if they think and apply themselves! If Tarkor and I are in the GW opposite of each other, there should be something to give the guy who rps 2 pages of brilliant tactics that can't be shown in general orders. From ordering something like the Thrawn Pincer to a multi vectored approach to divide the enemy fleet. The guy with fewer ships can pull of a win if their outgunned or at least has a shot if they have hte right people in command. It may be a pipe dream or something where simply breaking the gens up into smaller pieces in some cases would do it or some boost in fleet efficiency. Umm like how if Kal and I rp to a battle. I rp terrible but Kal rps well and Kal gets that xp bonus thing, I've never seen it since I haven't ever been in a battle like it but I've heard of it. So I just want to bring it up for discussion. Tactics and Strategy in a Galactic WAR should matter more then just, "Okay I have x and they have y. I win." It goes a long way no matter who is involved and encourages outstanding rp and less "Oh beep, lets run." Constantly. Where in reality, most the time people would try something before they run. Thank you. Last Edited By: Thrion 03/25/08 02:19:28. Edited 1 time.
Izaak von Schwartzkrieg		#1	[-]
Posts: 175 (03/25/08 06:40:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Can't agree with you more in what you are saying, Old friend... But I am also quite guilty of not being able to come up with a valid system proposal myself...this happens to come partially because I wasn't the one that made it and therefore have no knowledge whatsoever in the inner workings of the system and therefore unable to come up with any knowledge on how to fix what I have no idea where and how its broken, just what is broke...and partially because I am never in a position to request these kinds of things myself. And the last thing Jay needs on his hands at the moment is a bunch of us tactics fanatics hounding him to fix the system, rather than coming up with a full detailed programme/system of our own that he can consider and accept... To make matters worse, even if we come up with something...its unlikely to be granted much consideration considering the first part of the problem I have come across...I don't have enough data. So unless we are willing to work from scratch each ship, how its balanced, what its role is etc. we cannot just adopt a SLIU system and change it to accomodate Tactics... At least that is what I have been lead to believe. Please fill me in if some messages got misinterpreted in the past.
Thrion		#2	[-]
Posts: 257 (03/25/08 12:24:42) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well first we need to put two things into teh GW system. 1.) CREWs need to be back... Should have that. 2.) Emplacements should mean something again. Ya don't buy 'em for nothing. lol Not fixing a system, trying to improve it. Coz if we battled in GRP, there would be some effect. Yeah, its a hard case. xD
Kal Strife		#3	[-]
Posts: 3426 (03/25/08 12:48:51) Rebel Leader Master of the Force The Unforgiven Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well, first things first, thanks for the compliment Thri. Your check is in the mail Second up... well, here's the problem with tactics; because we're not actually in the universe, not actually standing on the command deck of an MC-80a or an ISD-II, it's hard to get a real grasp of how effective tactics are. I mean, you can go on and on about things like a tri-wave Thrawn Pincer, coupled with a Ackbar Wedge and supported by X-Wings escorting A-Wings with the Bel Iblis Slash, but how can we tell those are really effective? How can we tell that all that knowledge, all that skill, won't just be stopped by someone saying 'I set up an impeneterable field of fire with my overwhelming forces.' Harsh, I know, but it could happen. What I'm trying to say here, boys and girls, is that without actual in-universe experience, the effectiveness of these tactics would be largely subjective, with much of their worth being determined only by how impressive the generator found them. In other words, it would come down to being a battle of words, like the standard battles, rather than a battle of tactics. An improvement, I suppose, but not really what you were looking for, I think. Next... crew. Oh dear me, how I hated having to manage crew levels. I mean, the ability to have elite crew manning your vessels was an interesting one, with a good little bonus attatched, but trying to juggle your figures grew to be a pain in the petunias after a few months. However, perhaps there's something else we could consider - something a touch easier to get to grips with - how about simply introducing two versions of each ship? One standard one, at the current cost, and one with elite crew at a higher cost. Not quite so flexible, but easier for those who want to RP rather than spending half their month playing at being a mathematician.
Jay Mertaal		#4	[-]
Posts: 5369 (03/25/08 16:31:32) Administrator Leader of the BSP Legendary Pirate Captain Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yes, it is a tricky one. It's always a compromise with enriching the game and making it fiddly, rulesy and overly complicated. I have been mulling over different ideas for fleet gens for... well, years now, and haven't come up with something fully satisfactory yet. Bottom line is that people come here to RP. If they want to play star wars battlefront they can... well, play star wars battlefront! Any replacement system needs to be elegant in its simplicty, or I believe it would be a hinderence rather than an addition to the game. -crew: yuck, nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! However, I was thinking a while back about involving characters in generations slightly more: increasing efficiency etc. However, for now it just isn't practical. The current fleet generator is only slightly less labour intensive than doing it all with pen and paper, so until I convince Luca to do a spanking new one any further complication to the process is off the list. -emplacements: Totally. I've been planning on introducing some decent defensive emplacements which can actually take part in battles, and for reasonable prices. The current ones are (mostly) relics from a bygone era, or far too expensive. I decided to do that when I did the whole fleet overhaul, because they're closely related. The only thing stopping these happening is my schedule, but it is on my list. I think a better range of defensive platforms will enrich the GW environment strategically, rather than the fleet environment tactically, however. Whatever is introduced and changed in the GW and fleet battles though, needs to be versatile and accessible by all, and not geared towards a particular type of person. We'll never have a tabletop style fleet generator for example. I toyed with the idea once, because I thought it would be really cool (albeit very difficult to design and impliment). But that's just the point. What you and I and jimminycricket think is cool is not necessarily what the Imperial leader of next year, or three years to come is going to be interested in or enjoy. I don't want to shut people out of roles of responsibility just because they're not a games freak like me!
Thrion		#5	[-]
Posts: 260 (03/25/08 17:14:11) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Aye hints why bringing it up. >< I like to see more defense platforms like we have out there in most SW based games. So its not an always "the smaller fleet runs" That would go a long way! ^-^
Kal Strife		#6	[-]
Posts: 3432 (03/25/08 17:20:36) Rebel Leader Master of the Force The Unforgiven Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	A quick glance at Wookiee has shown that there are a number of orbital defence emplacements that we dont use. Possibly, by introducing a number of these at lower costs than ships of equivalent strength, we could remove the ability of factions with alrger fleets to simply take anything they want. On the other hand, this could encourage a 'turtle' mentality where people simply build lots of defensive emplacements, so perhaps there would be a need to limit the number of emplacements that could be built. I'm not sure. Thoughts?
Thrion		#7	[-]
Posts: 263 (03/25/08 17:32:34) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Has to be a limit. Can't have space filled with those things xD Can't move then. I don't have a list in front of me but, a few of each and maybe one or two "stations" would be enough.
Jay Mertaal		#8	[-]
Posts: 5372 (03/25/08 19:45:24) Administrator Leader of the BSP Legendary Pirate Captain Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yes, there will be a limit in the same manner that there's a planetary limit for planetary emplacements. I envisaged space for three or four of orbital facilities, stations etc, and then a number of associated defensive platforms. Each facility can power and maintain a small number of platforms, giving a natural upward limit. I also considered an upkeep cost. Bet none of you like that idea!
Thrion		#9	[-]
Posts: 269 (03/25/08 21:21:01) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	cool cool xD Ilike upkeep but then I'd demand everything have it and then demand if there is upkeep then we should buy crew. You don't like that.
Kal Strife		#10	[-]
Posts: 3438 (03/25/08 21:23:26) Rebel Leader Master of the Force The Unforgiven Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Remember, Jay, Thri was the man who ran YY, where they had upkeep costs on everything from your Death Star down to your underpants.
Thrion		#11	[-]
Posts: 272 (03/25/08 21:25:15) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I won't mentioned someone else ran a place similar. ^-^
Jay Mertaal		#12	[-]
Posts: 5374 (03/25/08 23:08:08) Administrator Leader of the BSP Legendary Pirate Captain Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The upkeep cost of my underpants is probably not a fit topic for conversation.
Mal Trite		#13	[-]
Posts: 462 (03/26/08 01:04:24) Darth Jidai Sith Knight Eye of the Storm Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Suggestion: Some planets have greater value, and or are more advanced than others. As Such, perhaps it would be appropriate for Certain planets in the GW to have a higher "platform limit." Or, if not that, a normal platform limit, then we can downgrade some of the lesser planets to smaller platform allotments. Dunno, just a concept. Also, maybe introduce some kinda mechanic so we can use ships to "defend" or "block" other ships, such as droid control ships and the like which have a certain greater value to them.
Thrion		#14	[-]
Posts: 275 (03/26/08 02:04:07) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Nah don't like htat. The point of having these in GW as they are major and important compare to other worlds. Should be all on the same field in my eyes.
Mal Trite		#15	[-]
Posts: 467 (03/26/08 20:12:26) Darth Jidai Sith Knight Eye of the Storm Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Fair enough, I suppose, though I think it's silly to suggest that all worlds have equal value.
Thrion		#16	[-]
Posts: 280 (03/26/08 20:19:08) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Its a balance thing to keep the GW system fair otherwise we'd be fighting over say Kuat for .0002 extra building. xD Not worth it imho.
Kal Strife		#17	[-]
Posts: 3462 (03/28/08 10:55:35) Rebel Leader Master of the Force The Unforgiven Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Instead we're fighting over Kuat because it's construction instead of production One slight concern over this whole idea, though. Would Luca be required to do some new coding in order to get it to work? And if he is, what sort of Beta Testing would be required?
Thrion		#18	[-]
Posts: 336 (04/02/08 21:32:45) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Since no one responded and I know a little about programming.... I'm sure we could use the stations as is but these new things we could label them as say stations in the store but classify them as ships with speed 0 for gens. I don't think would need to do really anything besides adding 'em. hell just setting them teh same as say battlestations would work, no? xD Don't know if we've ever had stations or ground emplacements in battles. That may need work/testing.
Kal Strife		#19	[-]
Posts: 3514 (04/03/08 09:39:47) Rebel Leader Master of the Force The Unforgiven Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	From what I recall of the SLIU fleet battles, something cannot be counted as two seperate things in different areas. In other words, it can be a station in store and battles, or a ship in store and battles. And the problem with making it a ship is that people would still be able to move it in GW.
Jay Mertaal		#20	[-]
Posts: 5427 (04/03/08 13:25:51) Administrator Leader of the BSP Legendary Pirate Captain Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Indeed, they would require programming, but it would be quite simple. I've discussed it very briefly with Luca but as of yet have no solid plan for how it would work. He's near to finishing his end of year project, so after that is done we can talk at more length. I believe, for anyone boring enough to care, that it wouldn't be a question of creating a new ship class etc, but merely adjusting the generator so that planetary defence platforms/stations would be included in the gen. Much easier, and not interfering with the existing programming (as the generator is a stand alone application which merely collects data from the SLIU like Word can collect data from excel in a mail merge).

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