Making the GW mean more

Author	Comment
Thrion	Making the GW mean more	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1560 (07/04/09 22:26:12) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Skip all this and click me Skipping to the point. Don't care what we thinkg about the GW as of now. That is beyond the point. I'm going straight ot the idea. Each planet is a key world in a sector of space. Ownership of the world basically does one of the following. None of them are perfect, but the goal is simple. Goal: To make it clear how the GW affects the galaxy. By clearly defining what each faction's ownership means, will not only encourage GW combat, but also dramatically shift rp. Say the BSP own all worlds, that should mean something. Owner: Effect Empire: The Empire controls this sector of space. It's tight. The Imperial Fist is present to keep peace and order.. Rebel: This sector is currently rebelling or has broken away from whoever, say the Empire. CSA: Within this sector, the Corporations are exerting their control with hte assistance of hte CSA to secure the sector for their own ends. BSP: This sector is ripe with criminal/pirate activity. Governments are slacking. Sith: This sector now is under their oppression or all goods, services, and lifeforms are nwo focused on the Sith's cause. Blood flows everywhere. (Now for noes not present but possible) NR/Whatever: The NR/whatever controls this sector of space. Governments are in control. The people are free. Security isn't nearly as tight as the Empire, but the Republic Forces are there to help keep the peace. Jedi: Opposite of the Sith, the sector is calm. The governments operate with the aid of the Jedi and their protection. Shadows: I don't konw enough about them to say anything... Cross between sith and jeid I guess or the sector is independent and under self rule. Dragons no longer exsist. So I think that is every faction to ever have exsist on SL. Lack of Forces: If owning faction has no forces within the system, the sector is hovering between neutrality and the owner. It's still in their corner, but it should be easier to slip in and out of this sector. The local governments are pushing for more control from their say IMperial Moff or Republic Governor or whatever. Now you see. This says if the Sith say Bonadan, the Corporate Sector is split. The Sith are in control of a good portion of said space. Naturally unless teh CSA is happy with htis, then actino should be taken. Also stirs rps around it. Also must have something there or in rp the entire sector is wavering. If the Empire owns Kuat, all sectors around Kuat are feeling hte heat. If the Empire in rp owns all sector around Kuat and the Rebels own Kuat, the seeds of rebellion would be easier to plant in surrounding sectors. The effects of the ownership of a GW world and sector should spiral out some. This keeps the galaxy in flux as it should be. I don't know enough about the map, but I know each key system is in a sector. Each sector varies in size. There aren't too many major planets in any sector. Controlling the key Planet in the GW should affect sector wide control. If the Empire wishes to hold Kuat's sector, they must ensure Kuat is theirs. Otherwise all the space around Kuat would be in trouble from lack of Imperial presence. If the CSA wishes to hold the Corporate Sector, they must ensure Bonadan is theirs. So forth. Lack of GW worlds equates to lack of galactic power in major sectors. Should keep things interesting and changing/in conflict. Naturally if say Jay/Sal like this or do something similar, I think Bonadan should be flipped out. The key world in the Corporate Sector is Etti IV, not Bonadan. Should double check most worlds for stuff like that I guess. Last Edited By: Thrion 07/06/09 23:40:06. Edited 3 times.
Izaak von Schwartzkrieg		#1	[-]
Posts: 645 (07/05/09 03:24:20) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yay for Star Wars Rebellion/Supremacy (Whichever country you be in) and other such SW Strat games... Uhh...more seriously.... You gotta give us more ships or lessen the number of planets to do the garrisoning quirk. Also, this still doesn't mean much to most of us since planets are worthless. The Rebels will incite rebellion at their convenience regardless of who owns what. The Empire will enforce iron fist whereever its RP thinks its justified regardless of who owns what. The ships you spend more than one month building is never worth a single planet never mind all of them combined. Laying it out means little unless the planets become meaningfull. The BSP came out of a year or so slumber of constant build-up of forces with no GW planets under their control and they made one hell of a good gain in number of ships. This is a good thing and a bad. Good for us because it means GW is meaningless. Bad because GW is now meaningless. What you be proposing is not going to help. Ships are still more valuable than any planet regardless of RP effects. The Rebels will always set up hidden bases anywhere. Hell even Hadoland came up with a Cantina of Pirates in Coruscant when he wanted to! So you better start coughing up some numbers and how they affect GW or SLIU or the rest of the RP. Or else I personally fail to see how it can help make the system "Meaningful"...
Selaenia		#2	[-]
Posts: 146 (07/05/09 03:53:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Heh.
Locount Lazrus		#3	[-]
Posts: 669 (07/05/09 08:31:43) Grand Vizier Narcissistic Battle Mod Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Not in favour of this idea. The idea of a direct link of GW and SL wide RP does not sit well with me. While some people can use GW worlds in their RPs after capture, which is fine by me I just don't do it, to make it have such major effects is too much. After all, what you turn the site more into then is a Risk board based RP site, rather than the faction based but PC run site we are now. The GW here adds as an addition for RP, not as a base for the site. To make it more involved would take SL more out of the hands of the RP'ers and more into the hands of the FL's, whose actions may not sit well with people or each other. It may also prove a problem, to people who wish to establish arcs to their RPs too, if fractured state of the galaxy is made more significant. My point being the GW helps with RPs, but we could easily survive without it, and it more belongs to the bygone days in my eyes. I can see the advantages to your idea, but I think it would just be a too complex a mechanism to use, and RP does not falter without it (In fact is kept kept less constrained).
Thrion		#4	[-]
Posts: 1563 (07/05/09 13:29:32) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thinkings of the GW: Addon to SL that doesn't mean anything. Addon to SL that directly affects rp. Addon to SL that could be fun, but the whole things is out of whack. So you see what I did here? :P I making people talk about it. Perhaps one of the biggest faults in the system is this: Homeworlds. Some safe place to hide out of reach of the other factions. For the CSA, I used Fondor as said world. I didn't run to Etti IV and build up. Perhaps the removal of these "Homeworlds" is best thing for it. If you don't have a GW world, you don't have GW production, but the odds of that happening is low since you'd have to have no ships left. Then that would prove another flaw in the design. The point of the GW was, in my examining eyes, to give factions a feel of the real cost for taking and controlling planets. It wasn't till not too long ago that factions stopped protecting worlds and fighting. We used to stand our ground and DO something. It wasn't till recently that this idea that somehow the GW is worthless but ships are worth something so if you get attacked run and hit something someday. Not like in a major campaign the staff couldn't just assign factions forces so don't' use that as a reason for it. If ships are important, so are the GW Key Worlds. If GW key world aren't improtnat, GW ships aren't. GW forces have no effect on this NPC ships. The Empire knows it has huge fleets. THey don't need the GW to prove it. Can't say you need the system for ships, but not the worlds. Can't say the ships matter, but not the worlds. They are both linked. We have both or we have neither. What's so hard about saying "The Empire owns Kuat. They own that sector." "The Rebels own Kuat. The sector is uprising against the Empire." "The pirates own Kuat. The sector is ripe with pirate activity and governments are at a loss." So forth. Not hard. Not complicated. If anything, it's easy. But this requires you to care and acknowledge the worth of those sectors and the effect they have on the galaxy. Maybe even go as far as actually rping related to it. I know GW2.0 is a long way away, but there are a ton of things such as a total lack of reason for an army that need addressing. ((BY the way, edited it a few times to cut out redundant points. figured I'd keep this as short as possible for the general audience)) Last Edited By: Thrion 07/05/09 14:40:36. Edited 6 times.
Beske Dialo		#5	[-]
Posts: 47 (07/05/09 17:45:48) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Fair play Thrion. It is a little ridiculous that entire fleets abandon an entire planet to an enemy rather than fight it. I mean, it's not very realistic in the Star Wars universe is it? Every film,book, comic,game has had battles with a fleet defending a planet against aggressors. I know it is feasible for a fleet to flee if there is literally an overwhelming amount of the enemy...but at the moment Galactic Wars is more like Galactic Hide-and-Seek. I mean there are no wars, simply...it might as well be called Star Runs. (I have used that pun before, apologies). The GW is a little silly that people just fly away all the time-there's no excitement there is there? I personally think it would add to the RP universe to have a little more drama there. And I can see what you're saying Laz about it restricting RP-but it would only take a glance at the planet list to see who owned what and where it would be more realistic for a character to be. Hell, even if a Rebel character wanted to RP on a non-rebel majority world without risking a huge affray breaking out, he/she can do it in SECRET...hell isn't that what most pirates/rebels are doing now anyway?! Planets should mean more. It's far more realistic and meaningful that way. If it's too extreme for an FL to risk their fleet defending a planet because they may be outnumbered, then give them a bonus to encourage them, even if its something along the lines of staying for at least a few genned rounds in order for "the government to flee to their transports and evac the planet whilst the defenders cover their escape in a barrage of laser fire" or some other better thought out reason. Also, at the end of the day, I mean a planet should mean more than a fleet, right? Fleets are used as temporary bases and for military might. A planet can do both of those things, and generate income, and hold anti-spacecraft defenses, trade with other planets, etc. The last point may just be me not knowing enough about the GW, but my previous points still stand, I think.
Rani Churs		#6	[-]
Posts: 3970 (07/05/09 17:52:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Gents, we've been over this before. It's not that the staff thinks the GW is a perfect system, but it's that any changes would likely require a lot of effort from Luca and there would be no telling how long that took. So unless any changes were to occur on the board and not the IU, anything would be a pipe dream with the current state of affairs when it comes to the availability of Luca for changes and updates.
Thrion		#7	[-]
Posts: 1564 (07/05/09 18:20:33) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Some of the stuff is ideas worth considering in GW2.0 in a few years like the removal of the homeworlds. The bulk isn't a cahnge needed for the SLIU. It's a change in the players minds and in rp. The rp affects is just rp. That requires 0 work in the GW. Like someone said, it only requires you to look at teh current owner and go "Okay, this sector is under Imperial Rule. I shouldn't go waving around my Republic Flag." Not rocket science at all. Very simple, not at all complicated. People talk about map making, but the board refuses to use the map we have that covers the Major planets of the galaxy. THese major planets are key planets for a reason. Control of them shifts the entire galaxy around. Last Edited By: Thrion 07/06/09 01:20:55. Edited 6 times.
Rani Churs		#8	[-]
Posts: 3978 (07/06/09 03:53:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	A couple of things that have been brought to my attention that I'll go ahead and state here. The first should be obvious, but if you have nothing to contribute you should not be posting in a senate thread. Thought it was a given but I've received some complaints (though why me and not the drunkards I dunno) so I'm putting it out there. The other is the observation that the senator list is outdated but to be fair since it's about to change again kinda me pointless for the admin to change it and have to change it again soon. For those who are curious the current senators according to the status quo are (I think) : Laz, Dragon, Itio/Natali, Jay and Izaak. Half those are unofficial (as in they're not the set faction leader in the IU) but the elections results support them. As for the topic of the GW, I need more time to elaborate my thoughts on the subject before sharing them so I'll be back.
Izaak von Schwartzkrieg		#9	[-]
Posts: 649 (07/06/09 08:14:45) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If the proposal is not going to get an update on why the FLs should care about the planets more besides whats already being done regardless of Planet ownership... Also known as: If Thrion is not going to add more incentives to keep the planets garrissoned (sp?) and guarded when attacked... (EDIT: a no vote has been made void due to a change in the nature of this proposal.) Last Edited By: Izaak von Schwartzkrieg 07/07/09 12:40:17. Edited 1 times.
Thrion		#10	[-]
Posts: 1567 (07/06/09 12:36:09) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The bonus is actually quite simple. Your ships mean something and count. Can't say that your ships are so worth it but your planets aren't. You get ru from them. You get more production. If you don't consider a sector or major planet worth protecting, what does that say about the non-GW Key Planets? One could assume you'd leave them unprotected since you don't get a bonus. Still it's hard to believe any faction controls any decent amount of space when they can't control the GW's Key Planets of the Galaxy. After all, the GW worlds you get stuff for and have a fleet for the sole reason of conquering and holding them. If you built ships that are too expensive to lose, who's fault is that? I build ships that if lost don't kill my budget but ships worth the ru. :P Doesn't change the fact that these are Key Planets and the entire galaxy is shaped by their ownership. Just saying. By the way, if anyone thinks this is an attempt to get under anyone's skin, it's not. Last Edited By: Thrion 07/06/09 13:12:35. Edited 5 times.
Izaak von Schwartzkrieg		#11	[-]
Posts: 651 (07/06/09 13:28:48) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I am simply asking, (and this is the third time I ask, just now I shall put it very blunt, considering there is a comm problem somewhere), for you to try and see if you can get away with proposing for GW planets to be worth more than a picket ship worth of Resources. No major planet of strategic interest is that Poor as to be only be able to help make one extra corvette or produce enough resources in one month for one small squadron of a high tech fighter/bomber. I asked you if you were willing to add more of an incentive for these planets by perhaps properly assisting the faction who controls it for its ownership. A corvette or a squadron is hardly worth stationing a fleet that cannot be so readily replaced. You say there are some ships that are not worth more than the measly bonuses given by the production/construction planets, but then we are coming into a problem of all of us producing those ships all the time. Then are you implying that our RP purpose only NPC war fleets are composed mostly of these novelty cheap and throwaway items? I doubt it. You give grand sweeping ideas with vague add ons that does little more than force the FLs to accept certain Newcomers' acts which are mostly done out of ignorance rather than spite or In-game advantage. You openly support FLs that are willing to drive their factions into the ground by forcing them to stand their ground while a more competent number-cruncher with access to all the equations and formulae that composes itself of GW and Gen materiel, moves in and enjoys his new-found conquests and says "well if only you were as clever as I.". You also seem to think this on a mostly one v one situation when in reality we are seeing the competition of seveal sides in the same conflict that has fleets who has no-where to go. If you will not mind me saying so, I will personally shift my entire fleet into the Space lanes every month except those occasional months were I feel like picking on some poor faction that I had not liked the look of that particular day. I asked for numbers. What it would mean physically. What your proposal was going to do about the apalling lack of wars in the galactic wars system. Until you are willing to make proper meaning for the GW planets, rather than make more pit holes for the FL's in learning, my opinion on this matter is clear cut. We have enough FL materiel already getting confused by the veterans' insistence that the GW planets are never worth a single ship that required RU and time to build. Poor CSA just entered a needless loss of resources from their decision to stand their ground in a GW planet under attack simply to give a bloody nose to Jay's BSP who probably has all the mathematicians and statistics in favour of the BSP. You are only going to add more confusion to that the way its going. Now, Give me numbers or can it. (I cannot make this any more blunt without going into profanities. So apologies if you still do not get it.) (EDIT: Sorry must be me tired brain. I meant to say in the end "Now, give me numbers or can this proposal, and then come back with an improved proposal" At this moment in time, that last line to me is either saying "Give me numbers or shut up", or "give me numbers or else come back with a new idea later"...both just sounds a bit off from my original intent.) Last Edited By: Izaak von Schwartzkrieg 07/06/09 13:41:18. Edited 1 times.
Thrion		#12	[-]
Posts: 1577 (07/06/09 18:41:36) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	See my next post, the * ^-^ Last Edited By: Thrion 07/06/09 23:36:56. Edited 4 times.
Rani Churs		#13	[-]
Posts: 3985 (07/06/09 22:22:41) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	And this is where I step in to play ambassador despite the fact that I was not asked to do so by any party. To keep this clean and friendly I'll do my best to summarize what everyone is trying to accomplish in this thread since I can already see the communications break down. Everyone is, of course, free to correct me if I'm wrong. Thrion wants one simple thing, to put more rp emphasis on the GW in order to make it more worthwhile or "meaningful". Basically he wants to find a way to make the GW worth the time it takes each month to figure out the orders, press the buttons and draft the rp. In essence, he wants more bang for our buck. Beske seems to second this. Laz and Izaak do not want this, for they feel the GW is already enough of a chore and would rather not make it a more important factor unless the current flaws as they see them in the system are fixed. They think if anyone wants the GW to have more impact they should get specific with the numbers and possibly up the ante to make it a more strategic game. If the planets had more of an impact on the amount and speed of ships produced they might be worth fighting over but presently they're not going to be convinced without concrete numbers and examples. Selania wants to up her post count without actually contributing anything. As for myself, I don't know if there is much we can do to improve the GW without tearing it down and starting from scratch or at least a major overhaul. I do know we need to keep this debate friendly and idea tolerant. At some point we may have to agree to disagree but it's too early in the game to be going for the jugular of the opposing argument. I also know I'm hungry. Deducting most of the irrelevant stuff I think that's about what this boils down to, I think, but I could be wrong about 4 of the above 6 points. Double Edit: Oh on another note if would probably have been better to tag Salem as well in your council thread. The admin work together as a team, after all. Last Edited By: Rani Churs 07/06/09 22:28:53. Edited 3 times.
Thrion		#14	[-]
Posts: 1584 (07/06/09 23:21:41) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	For those who just want to get to the good idea in this post go to the * ^-^ The flaws in the system aren't going to be fixed anytime soon. I for one scream protons are overpowered. Don't see why they have to do what they are allowed to do. On and on. But GW2 is a long time away, if ever. "It's not perfect, so what? Doesn't stop us from having a hoot in it," some would say. So live with it, restart it, or... *Abandon it. if it's so broken, why fix it! Not like we aren't capable of coming up with NPC fleets and battling. I'm sure we could use the SLIU to gen them. I actually like this idea... Encourages rp instead of "Production management." Creative rping instead of "Okay do I have enough ships to overcome them." I really like this. Two FL can decide on respective forces. If they can't, they should be fired. Make NPC fleet battles have a generation plus some small reward for participants, probably added manually. Could mix in PC battles in it for like the movies. Think about it! Running wouldn't get you a little reward, 5 xp or whatever. Also you have nothing but NPC ships to lose if you stay. No reason to really focus all firepower on the biggest ship to realy hurt the other guy's production plans. Could actually use some tactics via a little modifier in the program that I'm sure it has. Could make a sudden shift in rp events. Say the rebels came to win, the Empire fights. The Empire guy really goes above and beyond, he gets a modifier bonus. The Empire actually wins. Makes it more interesting since the outcome is part chance and out of our hands. Naturally this would have to be decent rps of over a page or something, forum page. Make it worth the time of someone sitting down and genning it. We did this for the last campaign. Say it doesn't meet that, then if two pcs are fighting in it could let that decide it, but if you did enough for a full thing why not go for it. God knows I don't care for production, repair, and all that work the FL has. Took time away from me doing my rping to handle it. Wonder if we have something like that for armies? Don't think we do. PC on PC could still decide those. Last Edited By: Thrion 07/07/09 00:02:09. Edited 12 times.
Izaak von Schwartzkrieg		#15	[-]
Posts: 655 (07/07/09 12:01:56) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks Rani, you got the essence of my point quite clearly. Was wondering how this was going to get across. As for Thrion, I will quite happily second the motion to get rid of GW altogether. If we do continue the GW, it would be nice to find out what each of the stats in the GW ships do... I mean I know the basics, L3 is more powerful but difficult to hit, L1 is the opposite, weak but easier to hit. But how much damage and hit chance do we get for each of the weapon types? I vaguely remember the Shields and Hulls being discussed by Jay way back when but I have honestly forgotten. It would also be nice to know what Experience of the commander means to the fleet gen... Thrion seems to know, I think Laz would know as battle mod but I am not sure. The only other people I know who should definetly have the basic knowledge is Jay and perhaps Sal... I worked on vague RU cost/hull/shield/vague weapon ratio to determine which was worth more for the Resources I spent. Not the best way I know but seemed to do the job... Oh also I went by the "If I was the faction, which of these ships that is canon would look better?" ISDs, VSDs, and Neb B2s got in under that category. Then for Fighters I went "How many of what types do I have at this time? Canonically which of my capital ships can still fit more sqadrons in?" and then went about trying to get the Interceptor/Bomber ratio of 2:1... Yeah...some clarification would be nice...or tell this sleepy drunkard (since I am slightly drunk and sleepy right now...) where to find this data...
Thrion		#16	[-]
Posts: 1593 (07/07/09 12:34:47) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Remember in the last campaign, wehn we took on centerpoint. The Emprie fought an NPC fleet. I just assume Kal used the SLIU to gen it. I figure they built in it something to help with this. Naturally, the requirements for getting a gen on a "Fleet" level would need to be cleaer but doable. Last Edited By: Thrion 07/07/09 12:40:31. Edited 1 times.
Beske Dialo		#17	[-]
Posts: 52 (07/07/09 15:45:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Izaak von Schwartzkrieg wrote: It would also be nice to know what Experience of the commander means to the fleet gen... Oh also I went by the "If I was the faction, which of these ships that is canon would look better?" Then for Fighters I went "How many of what types do I have at this time? Canonically which of my capital ships can still fit more sqadrons in?" and then went about trying to get the Interceptor/Bomber ratio of 2:1... ______________________________________________ I second these vague sleepy drunken points. Keeps the RP feel. I know the rebels in canon did actually use some Imp craft, but I think we all get the point. Also exp I feel, is a must, of all PC/fleet commanders present. If a less experienced commander has a mighty fleet, is facing a less powerful fleet but with a couple of commanders who are more experienced than him, surely this is the making for an epic, dramatic, space battle that is worth flicking to the GW and having a read of? amirite?
Izaak von Schwartzkrieg		#18	[-]
Posts: 670 (07/09/09 14:25:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I was actually making a point on how little even I knew of the GW system. Which means that most people probably would not have had much better knowledge base than I. Even if they did, the fact that the admins are not making an effort to enlighten us uneducated masses means that the GW system itself is in need of a dire revamp, or like I agreed to Thrion above, be officially called off and made unnecessary. At least for now. Its a system that is a chore for Faction Leaders, only deals with Faction Leaders and their selected few reprsentatives, fights over worthless bonuses, loses priceless assets in the defence of said worthless bonuses, and in the end can be completely ignored by everyone without even a hitch in roleplay. No point in making the system mean more (especially when it doesn't make it mean more), get rid of it and see if we can come up with a better idea from scratch. Or even better, leave it be and concentrate more on the free-form RP that this site really thrives in.
Thrion		#19	[-]
Posts: 1718 (08/20/09 14:03:03) Mitth'rio'nuruodo Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I smell cheese cake or something like it. >.> Izzy, are you eating cheese cake?
Izaak von Schwartzkrieg		#20	[-]
Posts: 758 (08/20/09 16:03:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	You must be referring to my socks...now that you mention it...it may be a good time to change them...I wonder when I last changed my socks...ah well it must have been sometime last decade.

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